Non-Cab Mk4 Escort Project But Still Worth A Look???

[Guest John]

leave it with me badger i think i know where there is a brand new 1!!! unpainted type!!!!!

 

 

 

 

hi mate

hope all goes well if you ever want to get rid of the bumpers let me know it's hard to get good condition origanal plain bumpers..

[Guest John]

hi mate

hope all goes well if you ever want to get rid of the bumpers let me know it's hard to get good condition origanal plain bumpers..

[Guest tony.rose]

Any help and advice much appreciated with the carbs!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Guest gavintwopies]

Any help and advice much appreciated with the carbs!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

Just give me a PM when you get stuck as i have done quite a few conversions now that i can get it up and running well enough from 1st turn of the key by working out what jet sizes to drill etc depending on engine cc etc.

 

Mine are already done prior to fitting to the black top.

 

[Guest tony.rose]

ok

[Guest gavintwopies]

well a few more things have happened i have managed to get my engine mount sorted after finding that only 1 holes out of the 3 lines up with blacktop and the mount fouls the rear of the waterpump housing.

 

 

 

so after bolting it on i then find the mount stud fouls the alloy belt cover part of the timing cover.

 

 

so after marking it up one hacksaw later it does fit.

 

 

 

 

then of corse the mk4 mounting cage needs another trim...

 

[Guest gavintwopies]

well i managed to shoe-horn an hour or so's guess work into today so had the engine in and out 2-3 times checking sizes before i went daft with the grinder and hacksaw to give me the required clearances where there needed to stop parts of the engine or gearbox hitting what they should not.

 

 

 

This will be welded back up with the same 3mm steel that was removed just it will be a concaved plate not a convex as was removed.

 

once the gearbox could be lifted into its proper sitting place it then come apparent that the rear tensioner WILL hit the inner wing mounting lug on the inner wing so MORE cleanace was then needed.

 

 

 

 

This then lead to the final finding that the water pump SHOULD be clear of the inner wing once everything is bolted/mounted where it should be.

 

 

 

Thats all for now but at least its another step closer.

Edited July 11, 2011 by gavintwopies

[Guest gavintwopies]

Well after finding out that the escort mk4 alternator bracket sits too high and the water pipe is a major squeeze to fit over the top of it i got the lend of a mk3 fiesta under slung bracket to make a copy from then afterwards i think i remember the escort bracket had to be redesigned to lift the alternator out the way of the anti rollbar anchor pads????

 

anyway here is the pics non the less.

 

 

 

[Guest AstonB]

For the record i encountered the same problems as you with blacktop fitting, only im keeping the alternator at the rear with starter so it's clean and simple.

 

My solution for engine mount is a little more extreme (i tried the same method as you first but wanted to have rear alternator and original belt setup):

 

 

 

This requires the bodywork trimming in a few places to make room for the belt, places like the brake bias mounting point, and further down where the chassis leg curves inwards needed shaving back for the bottom pulley. I considered keeping the aircon and using a retrofit kit, but theres no where to mount it. I have left power steering pump on for now as im still toying with the idea of modifying Mk5 rack to fit...

[Guest AstonB]

I completely removed original mounting bits, not 100% on inner arch clearance with wheel but it should be fine.

 

As it happens the mount is almost identical to that of the newer duratecs, so i may be able to swap to duratec in as little as a day or two if needs be.

[Guest gavintwopies]

I completely removed original mounting bits, not 100% on inner arch clearance with wheel but it should be fine.

 

As it happens the mount is almost identical to that of the newer duratecs, so i may be able to swap to duratec in as little as a day or two if needs be.

 

Looks like a good bit of graft has gone into the inner wing conversion there.....top job m8

 

I could have done this my self but as i did not get the mount with the car or the front alloy abs bracket i'm a bit stuck, So dont know whether to go track one down so i have something to bolt the idler wheel kit too, to keep the waterpump going in its original direction or make a bolt on reverse impeller wheel wheel to bolt on to the water pump shaft so i can keep it a standard triangle set up....

 

Also found a picture of how someone else lowerd the original escort alternator bracket as i had it confirmed that the fiesta under slung sits too low and will foul on the anti rollbar mounting plates, so see what i can come up with this week....... here is hoping.

Edited July 17, 2011 by gavintwopies

[Guest AstonB]

My engine came with all ancillaries, but i had to buy the mount off ebay. I found a mondeo mount that was right for the engine side and chopped up the bit that bolts to the car so basically just the base was left as it has a bolt hole and locating pin in it.

 

If i want to drop engine its simple two bolts and gearbox cradle now, i had lots of issues getting it in without bashing stuff before so this seems simplest in long term. Plus i've kept original underneath bolt too so if i want to lift engine i can unbolt from under inner wing with ring spanner.

[Guest gavintwopies]

My engine came with all ancillaries, but i had to buy the mount off ebay. I found a mondeo mount that was right for the engine side and chopped up the bit that bolts to the car so basically just the base was left as it has a bolt hole and locating pin in it.

 

If i want to drop engine its simple two bolts and gearbox cradle now, i had lots of issues getting it in without bashing stuff before so this seems simplest in long term. Plus i've kept original underneath bolt too so if i want to lift engine i can unbolt from under inner wing with ring spanner.

 

I did think about doing what you have done, but thought i'll take the challenge and try to keep it as original as the cvh that was in, like doing the silvertop conversion would be, the other reason is that the gearbox i'm about to use will also need mounts making aswell so if i tried to fab the inner wing i might end up mounting the engine too far forward or backwards then the mounts i make to secure the box in place might end up being all wrong if they were made again for another car to use say a cvh and a mtx75 box and the whole lot would sit on the wonk front to back or up and down due to the blacktop being positioned different to the original engine that was sat there.

 

i think thats makes sence???

 

What gearbox are you using and do you have any other pics of the complete engine in situe inc. the gearbox also what managment are you going to run or are you going carbs?

Edited July 17, 2011 by gavintwopies

[Guest AstonB]

That kinda makes sense yeah, my thinking was that it'll only get more modern for me.

 

I'm using an IB5 from a later fiesta, think it's last of the rod change boxes, and i got a Group N gearkit for a fiesta ST as the box is the same apart from cable changer mech. And RS turbo LSD. BC mounts bolted up in most places but box doesnt match the bolt holes in the Mondeo alloy sump so i have a hole to drill for a nut and bolt to go in.

 

I have a few pics yeah, i'll sort through a decent couple and post em here if you like? They're only progress pics so dirty etc but the metalwork is as it will be when finished position and strength wise. Had an issue with original CVH mount where the left of the engine sat a couple mm's higher and im fussy so it sits perfect now.

 

Undecided on management yet. I was set on Emerald since it's an excellent bit of kit for decent money. But since looked at DTA S60/s40 or Omex 600. Think the Emerald is better spec than the others for very similar money though. I'm trying to use the injectors which came with the CBR1000 RR Bodies, from an 07 bike. But cant find solid info on the flow rates. The bike injectors have twice the amount of holes in the nozzle for better atomisation and a faster pintle inside so open and shut response is much quicker. But theres 8 of them and i wanted to run sequential injection, or at least sequential on the main set. Don't know if i need the second set until i find out how they flow. Packaging a second set is a slight issue. Bought a GP spec loom cheap for them already though.

 

I've still got the 1.8 Blacktop injectors and rail so if i cant get the bike injectors sorted then i'll fit the original injectors between bodies and head, but it's a last resort

[Guest gavintwopies]

Well after finding out the fiesta under slung alt bracket is a deffo no go on either the mk3 or 4 escorts i have been given a bit of a hint on how to lower the original escort mk4 bracket to give me the clearance needed.

 

Looks good so far.

 

 

[Guest gavintwopies]

Well i finally managed to get my hands on a mk3 escort front and rear mount via a good friend and after finding the mk3 mounts will bolt onto the shell i will have to design the bracketry to bolt the mtx box to the mk3 mounting points, also think i will desgin a spacer plate that will hold the mk3 mounting but be held in place via the mk4 roll bar mounting plates so's i'm not swapping the car back over to the harder to find mk3 parts all the time, this way if i deside to do this all over again at a later date i'm not going to be tracking down mtx mounting brackets then trying to hunt down mk3 mounts too.

 

 

[Guest AstonB]

Sounds ideal, i'd consider MTX for mine but the mounts arent the easiest bit without access to machinery. Plus i wont be running more than about 170bhp N/A so the uprated IB5 will be fine at that.

 

Unless the plates are cheap enough to adapt? It'd be awesome if you could knock some adaptors up so the mk4 mounts and crossmember can be used on the MTX box! They're in a simple enough place but i havent got the right tools for turning a plate into two adaptors. I thought a while ago about making a box section 'hoop' which bolts to the original Mk4 mounting points, and goes around the gearbox either side to the 'top mount' as used in focus etc. It'd be easy enough to incorporate a third mounting point at the rear then to counter the 'swing' motion that using two top mountings would create.

 

Effectively a Mk4 version of the focus setup, just bits moved about a little.

 

I can happily do a few illustrations if it helps, it'd be a brilliant way to convert Mk4's to mtx without having to do loads of cutting and welding to make a mount on the passenger wing. And pretty much reversible too, besides the small notch in the leg to allow for the larger box.

 

Thoughts?

 

(i love this part of modifying, the working around problems and designing/building solutions to them.)

[Guest gavintwopies]

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

Well after much head scratching and engine hanging it would appear i have been lead down the garden path a bit with the mtx gearbox fitting as i was informed off someone that they lowerd the zetec engine in the bay to give a lower ctr of gravity!!!

 

What it really means is the whole lot inc the gear selector will not fit unless the whole lot is lowerd 1-2" inside the engine bay to allow the selector to run under the car and clear the rear mk3 mount even if it has had bits cut away for more clearance ......... and i'm simply not that interested in fitting the MTX75 if it involves arsing around to that degree.

[Guest tony.rose]

Chin up, you go your own way and you will get there!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Guest AstonB]

Is your MTX a rod change or cable? Can't imagine cable would be an issue at all.

 

The rod can be modified very easily though. You can literally cut the middle section out, lower it as much as needed and join it up with some tube or square tube etc. That's how they do it with the rear engine conversion, only they extend it backwards and down so it goes under the gearbox.

 

Doesnt matter what shape the rod is which connects the stick to the gearbox, as long as the two ends are connected and it doesnt hit anything when moved.

 

Obviously if there is a pretty big difference in height between the stick pivot and the box selector, things will get tricky when moving the stick left and right, but it's not overly difficult.

Edited July 27, 2011 by AstonB

[Guest gavintwopies]

Is your MTX a rod change or cable? Can't imagine cable would be an issue at all.

 

The rod can be modified very easily though. You can literally cut the middle section out, lower it as much as needed and join it up with some tube or square tube etc. That's how they do it with the rear engine conversion, only they extend it backwards and down so it goes under the gearbox.

 

Doesnt matter what shape the rod is which connects the stick to the gearbox, as long as the two ends are connected and it doesnt hit anything when moved.

 

Obviously if there is a pretty big difference in height between the stick pivot and the box selector, things will get tricky when moving the stick left and right, but it's not overly difficult.

 

 

Yes the box is rod select, not cable its not just the rods hitting off the under side of the vehicle, the selector pin/spigot out the back of the box is 2-3" closer to the passenger inner wing than an ib5 box, so it actually fouls the mk3 rear mount badly so buy dropping the box this will allow the selector pin/spigot to be under the mount and clear it while also allow the rods to clear the under side of vehicle, and that s even if a grind some of the rear mount away for extra clearance.

 

Then there is also a clearance issue with the back of the box and the steering rack again lowering the box opens this up also its not the lowering of the engine that bothers me its more the hassle involved of having to start arsing around with the drivers inner wing mount all over again, and to be frank the shell siply is not worth all the effort , since yesterday i have struck a deal with a m8 of mine and i'm now listing the box, shafts and selector on e-bay for him in exchange for a std 5speed ib5 and selector.

[Guest AstonB]

Did you get any pictures of the clearance issues etc?

[Guest gavintwopies]

Did you get any pictures of the clearance issues etc?

 

I have not took any but as the engine & box are balanced in the bay i can get some tommorrow no sweat.

[Guest gavintwopies]

A few pics but as its dusk and my phone is naff in the shade these are the best i could do.

 

 

As viewed from under back of drivers front wheel

 

 

 

As viewed from under back of passenger front wheel

 

 

 

 

As viewed from under front of passenger front wheel.

 

As you can see with the selector fitted to the box its about 3 inches off the floor where it would bolt on.

 

and in the last pic you can see how close to the chassis rail where the mk3 mount would attach hence the selector needs to run straight through the mount even if the floor clearance problems were not an issue.

[Guest AstonB]

Yeah that doesnt look ideal does it. That's probably why people go for the cable option.

 

If you can be bothered (and depending what the selector for the IB5 came from) then get a later fiesta or Ka selector. They feel really nice and tight, and close gate too.

 

Got a Ka selector for both of mine, but it isn't perfect match for the BC as the neutral return spring is in the lever mech in those, so it doesnt return to the centre. Which doesnt bother me as the original lever had gone really sloppy!