Guest suffolk04 Posted June 13, 2009 Share Posted June 13, 2009 going to a bodyshop this morning to get a quote for 2 front wings welding and painting. never had any work done before, just wondering whats the going rate for this type of work? I've already brought the wings, so hopefully that will keep the cost down. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest clacky Posted June 13, 2009 Share Posted June 13, 2009 dont mean to hi-jack your topic but i would also be interested to see the feedback on the above as i will be doing the same with my bonnet and bumpers i intend to do the full prepare and then deliver just the parts for spraying any ideas anyone on what i should expect to pay for the spraying only cheers chris Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest suffolk04 Posted June 13, 2009 Share Posted June 13, 2009 just got back from the workshop. been quoted £500, for fitting both front wings(i'm supplying) and painting. that sound about right? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest dee1orean Posted June 13, 2009 Share Posted June 13, 2009 (edited) £500 sounds pretty good as most bodyshops work on the principle of about £200 per panel for fitting & painting so as your getting fitting and aligning done and they're weld on wings remember that's a good price. Chris, if you brought me panels that you'd prepared yourself I would refuse to spray them for you. or if you could persuade me to do them I'd offer you absolutely No guarentee regarding the paint work and paint adhesion and I'd probably still charge you around the £100 per panel rate even then the panels prob won't match the panels already on the car Paint is mixed up by the paint code on the car so you have fresh new paint. The paint already on the car will have faded over years and years of UV light exposure from the Sun. You put freshly painted panels next to original faded paint and I can guarentee it won't match. And who's fault will that be? oh yes the painters. However you bring the whole car and pay for a proper job and the surrounding panels will also be prepped and the paint will be blended into the old down the side of the car tricking your eye so you don't see the paint difference. You might think you're saving money but in the long run you probably won't be. Do you own any Spraying equipment? I'm guessing you don't or you'd spray the panels yourself right? so how are you going to apply the primer? let me guess Halfrauds Rattle can? great! I'm sorry but you just don't get the same paint build with rattle cans as you do with a spraygun and High Build Primer. Were you going to flat the primer down or deliver the panels to the bodyshop as is after you'd primed them? if you intend to flat the primer what grit paper will you be using? will you be using a wet or a dry sanding system and what guide coat will you be using? Chances are the bodyshop will have to reprep anyway. I'm sorry if my post comes across as harsh, but I get fed up off people being tight, you can't cut corners when it comes to prep work for paint, if you do it will result in a substandard paintjob, and who will you blame? that's right the painter. Painting is not about just slapping some paint on. I'm assuming a lot here but if you were in the trade or had experience of the industry you wouldn't need to ask how much a bodyshop would charge. Edited June 13, 2009 by dee1orean Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chaz Posted June 13, 2009 Share Posted June 13, 2009 Sounds harsh, but I have to admit you are right. as the saying goes, if you going to do it, do it right. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest clacky Posted June 13, 2009 Share Posted June 13, 2009 £500 sounds pretty good as most bodyshops work on the principle of about £200 per panel for fitting & painting so as your getting fitting and aligning done and they're weld on wings remember that's a good price. Chris, if you brought me panels that you'd prepared yourself I would refuse to spray them for you. or if you could persuade me to do them I'd offer you absolutely No guarentee regarding the paint work and paint adhesion and I'd probably still charge you around the £100 per panel rate even then the panels prob won't match the panels already on the car Paint is mixed up by the paint code on the car so you have fresh new paint. The paint already on the car will have faded over years and years of UV light exposure from the Sun. You put freshly painted panels next to original faded paint and I can guarentee it won't match. And who's fault will that be? oh yes the painters. However you bring the whole car and pay for a proper job and the surrounding panels will also be prepped and the paint will be blended into the old down the side of the car tricking your eye so you don't see the paint difference. You might think you're saving money but in the long run you probably won't be. Do you own any Spraying equipment? I'm guessing you don't or you'd spray the panels yourself right? so how are you going to apply the primer? let me guess Halfrauds Rattle can? great! I'm sorry but you just don't get the same paint build with rattle cans as you do with a spraygun and High Build Primer. Were you going to flat the primer down or deliver the panels to the bodyshop as is after you'd primed them? if you intend to flat the primer what grit paper will you be using? will you be using a wet or a dry sanding system and what guide coat will you be using? Chances are the bodyshop will have to reprep anyway. I'm sorry if my post comes across as harsh, but I get fed up off people being tight, you can't cut corners when it comes to prep work for paint, if you do it will result in a substandard paintjob, and who will you blame? that's right the painter. Painting is not about just slapping some paint on. I'm assuming a lot here but if you were in the trade or had experience of the industry you wouldn't need to ask how much a bodyshop would charge. Harsh.........yes but true thanks for the kick up the r's and i fully understand where you are coming from your comments are appreciated and taken on board not always easy to make the right choice when you havent gone down these routes before cheers chris cheers chris Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest clacky Posted June 13, 2009 Share Posted June 13, 2009 maybe another dumb question but what condition should a car be in to deliver it for a sprayer to do his work properly? ideally i would like to do the filling etc but maybe i am wasting my time if i am not going to get to the right standards and the bodyshop has to redo all mu hard work appreciate any help cheers chris Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gingergman Posted June 13, 2009 Share Posted June 13, 2009 the key to a good finish is good preperation! no one wants a shonky cabby lol, ive seen enuf of those already lol. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Escort Cabriolet Club Posted June 13, 2009 Share Posted June 13, 2009 If its going to cost £500 fot just 2 wings then you might as well get the whole car checked for other rusty bits, get them sorted and go for a full-respray !!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest suffolk04 Posted June 14, 2009 Share Posted June 14, 2009 If its going to cost £500 fot just 2 wings then you might as well get the whole car checked for other rusty bits, get them sorted and go for a full-respray !!! what would that cost though??? surely in the region of £1500+ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Escort Cabriolet Club Posted June 16, 2009 Share Posted June 16, 2009 About that mate, money well spent in my opinion !!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest ILOVEMYPINKMK4 Posted June 17, 2009 Share Posted June 17, 2009 going to a bodyshop this morning to get a quote for 2 front wings welding and painting. never had any work done before, just wondering whats the going rate for this type of work? I've already brought the wings, so hopefully that will keep the cost down. Hi. I've just had the rear of my mk4 repaired (I supplied boot lid, bumper and rear light), readjusted, prepped & resprayed £600; petrol filler, tank refitted, seals both sides welded & whole exhaust fitted for approx £300. They were the cheapest I could find. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest suffolk04 Posted June 17, 2009 Share Posted June 17, 2009 thanks for all the advise. decided to ring another bodyshop, going saturday, see what they say. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Escort Cabriolet Club Posted June 17, 2009 Share Posted June 17, 2009 Keep us posted matey !!! :icon_salut_gb: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest suffolk04 Posted June 20, 2009 Share Posted June 20, 2009 back from the 2nd bodyshop. £350. :wow: i'm going to that one, not just because of the price, but he seemed alot more interested. the first one had a quick look and just said £500. the second had a good look all around the car, telling me its in good condition, and described fully what he's gotta do, and explained the price was mostly labour because of all the cutting/grinding etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest murcus Posted July 9, 2009 Share Posted July 9, 2009 back from the 2nd bodyshop. £350. :wow: i'm going to that one, not just because of the price, but he seemed alot more interested. the first one had a quick look and just said £500. the second had a good look all around the car, telling me its in good condition, and described fully what he's gotta do, and explained the price was mostly labour because of all the cutting/grinding etc. thats not bad, as most places quote 200-250 per panel, but not so bad as only have to cut old wings off ( break the spot welds) and just primer paint and laquer the two wings cheapest paint is about 25 per litre ( id say 1/2 litre for both wings ) the thinners , activator and laquer, he will allready have post up pics with the finished result, as this fellow sonds decent enough Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest murcus Posted July 9, 2009 Share Posted July 9, 2009 (edited) i think no one should be scared to have a go at painting them selves heres a copy of a how to off another site i use written by a fab painter! first up HEALTH AND SAFETY!! paints and fillers are chemicals and believe me they F you up if you dont use masks,breathing apparatus and a well ventilated workspace. never respray in a isolated garage/room, always use a mask for filling (paper mask will suffice £not much) and a chemical respirator WITH a carbon filter. (around £35) or an airfed mask for painting i once painted a small spoiler in a closed garage and i was ill for days after, cold, shivering, tight breathing i could barely move, i was young and stupid it scared the hell out of me. ive got an industrial extractor fan in my garage at home that i picked up off ebay for£25, open the garage door a touch and it creates an exhaust for all the over spray to exit the garage,look into something like that if your doing a large/full repaint. Tools. Compressor and airline (£170-350+) - look for something around 100 litre+ and about 3hp. ive got a 150litre 3hp sealey compressor and its good for any air tool and a full repaint without running out of steam. anything less and you might run low on air, especially with the large Pro spray guns like Devilbiss and Sata and an air powered DA sander. Water trap (£20-25)- goes somewhere in the middle of your air line to get rid of any moisture in your compressed air - you dont want any water getting into your spray gun/paint!! i have 2 water traps one near the compressor and one near the end of the airline. DA sander-(around £20+) air powered dual Action sander that takes the 150mm round sandpaper discs. Spray Gun - most important, i would only ever paint with a Devilbiss GTi (£160+) or a Sata Jet (£200+) gravity fed gun with a 1.3 or 1.4 needle setup. anything else just doesn't cut it. there are other cheaper guns out there but ive never used them. UPOL and sealey do a spray gun for about £70-90 that look ok,. just make sure you get a 1.3 or a 1.4. for smaller areas i have a Devilbiss SRi 1.2 (mini version of the GTi) thats quite nice can pick these up for around £100 on ebay and would suit someone who was just spraying a panel at a time. end of the day its waht your budget allows so go for the best gravity fed gun you can. hand sanding blocks- come in many shapes and sizes, the bigger the area your filling/flatting the longer your sanding block should be to minimise 'ripples' the most used block i have is the small 'palm' sized black rubber block that halfords sell for a few quid so make sure you get one of those at least. Sandpaper grits - REMEMBER always block filler by hand and not with an electric/air sander as these will distort the repair P40 - ultra coarse - only use to knock down first coat of filler on large areas of damage (very rarely used, Never on small reapairs) P80- use to knock down and shape filler most of the time P120 - shaping filler of smaller areas of damage most of the time P180 feathering out of repair to loose the p80/p120 scratch marks P240 again feathering out of p80/120/180 scratches P320 again feathering out of p80/120/180/240 scratches, P320 is the smoothness your looking for and the repair is then suitable to prime over. Remember: never paint over a shiny surface, if you do the paint will just peel off, all areas that are to be painted need to be 'Keyed' so the new paint sticks, to key the panel you can use a 'scotch brite' (usually the grey ones that look like a brillo pad) or if not p500 on a DA sander or p800/p1200 wet'n'dry sandpaper used wet will do, just make sure the panel is dull . a top coat/colour coat can be applied over a p600 or above... i try to only paint over a p800/p1200 prepaired surface. Fillers - huge range i but stay away from 'Davids p38' its crap, i use Ultima for fine work or any filler by Upol such as Upol easy sand for larger areas. for ultra quality work i skim my finished filler in Upol's TOP STOP Gold' this is a very very fine filler and gets rid of any imperfections and levels out the repair. but for small dings etc you cant beat Ultima (halfords sell it in smallish tins for about £9) filling - filler MUST be applied over a 'keyed' surface, such as P80 or more importantly bare metal..... feathering out your filler onto existing paintwork so you not left with a step or a bump between metal and old paint is acceptable - if the old paint is in good condition i do somtimes scuff the paint up with a P80 grit and use a skim of light bodyfiller over the top of the original paint - probably not a 'preferred method' as it depends on how well the existing paint is stuck to the car... but ive never had issues. i cant explain how to get a filled area perfectly flat, this comes with practise but run your hand flat across the panel feeling any 'high' and 'low' spots with your palm. high spots need rubbing more low spots need another skim of filler. start rubbing you filler with a P80 on a block by hand, when the repair is coming to, use a p120 and then finish off with a p240 or P320 when your happy with the repair. any small bare metal rub through areas must be treated with a squirt of etch primer such as Upols 'acid 8' in an aerosol before you high build prime. Paints and Primers key - 1K / 1 Pack = no activator/hardener needed drys in the air. 2k / 2 Pack = activator/hardener needs to be added - (chemically hardened) HS - High solid paint applies to primers + solid (direct gloss) top coats/clear coats MS - Medium solid paint applies to primers + solid (direct gloss) top coat/clear coats solvent based (acrylic/polyurethane etc) - applies to older base coat paints phased out at the end of 2007 - still available though and easier to work with than water based outside of a spray booth. water based - newer paints, not much to say other than water based, better for the environment but not so easy for Fred in is Shed to use! needs a hot air flow to dry (a hairdryer works wonders!) flash off = paint drying time before next coat colours - i wont get into custom colours so standard colours weve got metallic/pearls/Micas and solid colours. solid colours = red, black, white etc etc. for metallic,pearls and micas you must apply a clear coat over the colour to give it a shine and protect the paint. for solid colours you have the option of buying the colour in a HS/MS (direct gloss - no clear coat required) or a base coat where a clear coat is required. the direct gloss option is easier and cheaper but the finish isnt quite as good as if it was done in a base/clear. Clear coats - for best quality always use a 2K High Solid clear, leave your base coat to fully flash off, (i give it around an hour in normal temperatures) many makes available and vary in price. 1K air dry clears are rubbish dont use. mixing ratios most solvent base coats are thinned down with a good quality basecoat thinner at a rate of 1 to 1 so if you buy 1 litre of solvent base colour and mix the lot at 1:1 youll get 2 litres of paint. clears and primers all have different ratios depending on make so check the tin, and you might need to buy a mixing stick with ratios down the side (few quid on ebay) for bare metal areas use a 1k etch/wash primer, for small bare metal areas i use upols 'Acid 8' in an aerosol, for large areas you can buy it in a 1Litre tin to put through a gun. Panel wipe/degreaser - MUST be used on a clean cloth wiped across the whole panel to remove any wax/grease and silicone. use it before you prime and again before you apply any paint. MASKING UP a good quality masking tape, halfords and B+Q special rolls are pretty crap and dont stick, so try get some 3M or duck masking tape from a DIY place. 48mm (2") tape is best all rounder, and the 24mm (1") tape good for intricate areas a brown roll of masking paper is best to use and only 5-7quid. or if your feeling extravagant you an buy plastic polly masking sheet on a roll 15-20 quid which covers your entire car. but if all else fails ive had no problems with newspaper even though most painters say not to use it. i dunno why. Primer application make sure everything is masked up. - entire car apart from what you want priming to prime - 3 nice heavy coats with a 5-10 minute flash off between coats, first coat covers your repair only, then second flicking it out a bit more (5-10cm) and third coat again flicking it out a bit more. allow to air dry for 5-6 hours usually. Blocking your Primer apply a thin mist coat of cheap matt black aerosol over your primed area (called a guide coat), this will allow you too see any imperfections in the primer when your blocking it down, basically when all the black specals have been rubbed away you know the panel is flat (in theory! - obviously depends on how good your filler work is and blocking down skills!) blocking down -get a bucket of water, start with a p400/p600 wetordry paper. block it down wet. IMPORTANT when hand blocking, block down diagonally across the panel in both directions, always have the block perfectly flat and never block side to side or up and down the could cause waves in your primer, ALWAYS DIAGONAL back and forth. keeping the panel wet and trying off now and again to see your progress. blocking a panel perfectly flat comes with practise but run your hand flat across the panel feeling any 'high' and 'low' spots with your palm. high spots need rubbing more low spots should have been sorted in your filler and is a bit late at this stage! clean, wipe off and dry the panel and panel wipe the panel again. Colour Application and Gun setup just a bit of a ruff guide this as paint application can vary between water based and solvent based: mask up, get a tack rag (sticky paint prep cloth) tack off the panel getting rid of any minor bits of dust. (the tack rag can also be used between coats to remove dust etc. tip: wet the floor around your car, this stops any dust kicking up off the floor and into your paint. filter your paint into your gravity gun pot using a paper cone filter (pack of 50 only a few quid from paint suppliers) set the gun up - everyone sets there gun up differently, i have both the trigger AND the fan open fully ie: the paint fan is on its widest setting and the trigger of the gun is all in my hand control. if your quite nervous you could wind the trigger in so it lets a bit of paint out but the trigger stops halfway, wind it out until your comforatble with hope much paint is coming out of the gun. really you need a regulator (gauge) on the end of your gun to see how much air pressure is entering your gun, i paint everything with 2 BAR of air entering my gun and usually 2.2 BAR for a clear coat. give your repair areas/ (or the full panel if your doing a full panel) a light coat of colour basecoat allow to flash off - 10 mins flash off or so before another coat. -DONT GO SILLY AND BRAY LOADS OF PAINT ON, just light - medium coats, with a flash off in between) each coat flick the colour out slightly into original paint on each coat, blending the paint into original colour. (obviously doesn't apply to a full panel, just paint the full panel until its covered. no set amount of coats, just until your repair is fully covered spray with a 50% overlap on each pass of the gun, always start spraying at the bottom of the panel and work up . leave for an hour to fully flash off, make sure your base is fully dry before application of clear coat. clean your gun,mix the clear up as per tin instructions, filter the clear into the pot with a new paint strainer, CLEAR COAT the hardest part! apply with a 50% overlap with each pass, again starting from the bottom of the panel working your way to the top.. get your tack rag and tack off any bits of dust/****. apply a LIGHT coat over Entire panel, leave to flash 5-10 mins. hit it with a heavy second and final coat this is your finishing coat, not too much or it will run and your car will be stuck to the floor!! not too little or youll be left with an 'orange peel' effect paint job. again practise makes perfect, you need to watch the clear going on the panel, give it 20-30 seconds as some clears 'flow out' flat after a few seconds. Edited July 9, 2009 by murcus Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest dee1orean Posted July 9, 2009 Share Posted July 9, 2009 Well.... Thanks for putting all the skills and expertise that I've developed through trial, error and training over the last 8years into such an easy to read concise package. Next year I wont bother attempting to teach\advise my students on paint processes I'll just print that out, give it to them and send them out into the world ready to be qualified Painters. Job done. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest murcus Posted July 11, 2009 Share Posted July 11, 2009 Well.... Thanks for putting all the skills and expertise that I've developed through trial, error and training over the last 8years into such an easy to read concise package. Next year I wont bother attempting to teach\advise my students on paint processes I'll just print that out, give it to them and send them out into the world ready to be qualified Painters. Job done. im sorry but i thought the whole point in forums was to help each other out!, i always wanted to be a painter/panel beater and could never get and apprenteship, so during my time off work, i spent around 2 years going back and forth to a paintshop, learning to prep and paint using mostly basecoats and now its waterbased paints! the only way for anyone to get better is training, practice and advice, knowledge is the key! the bottom line is, people on here need advice, thats why they ask, bodyshops are allways busy, unless greedy! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest clacky Posted July 11, 2009 Share Posted July 11, 2009 im sorry but i thought the whole point in forums was to help each other out!, i always wanted to be a painter/panel beater and could never get and apprenteship, so during my time off work, i spent around 2 years going back and forth to a paintshop, learning to prep and paint using mostly basecoats and now its waterbased paints! the only way for anyone to get better is training, practice and advice, knowledge is the key! the bottom line is, people on here need advice, thats why they ask, bodyshops are allways busy, unless greedy! I thought your post was extremely helpful, in fact i have also printed it out for future reference as it offered many peices of information that is sadly lacking in my skills must admit i would love to complete the spraying myself but unfortunatley my garage is so full of the normal household crap that i can hardly get in there myself :wow: and if i attempted to spray in there then all the golf clubs and bikes etc would end up the same colour as the panel i was spraying one question, i have read that body filler is porous and that it shouldnt be rubbed down using wet and dry with water, any thoughts on this one please ?? well done cheers chris Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest dee1orean Posted July 11, 2009 Share Posted July 11, 2009 I guess I may have over-reacted a little your post is full of sound advice. But i've found from experience that you can't learn to paint from just reading. when I first started out I was reading all kinds of instruction books, a lot by Jon Kosmoski the founder of House Of Kolor paints about kustom painting. So armed with this "knowledge" I went ahead and started spraying and time and time again I kept messing up and not really knowing why. So I sought the advice and instruction of a number of professional painters and what I learnt was to forget all about pulling off fancy paint jobs and to get back to basics and learning gun control. Watching how the paint hits the panel, learning that the further away from the panel the gun is the slower to move along it and vice versa the closer the gun is to the panel the faster you have to move to prevent runs but all the time putting an even amount of paint down. So after learning all that I've found that if needed I can now pull off some fancy paintjobs. It goes back to that old saying don't run before you can walk. I learnt a lot from reading but I learnt a lot more by doing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest dee1orean Posted July 11, 2009 Share Posted July 11, 2009 it's typical of many people in Britain that whilst using their garage to store old worthless Household junk, old bikes washing machines freezers that we don't actually use in the garage whilst leaving a car that we may have spent thousands of pounds on sitting on the driveway in all weathers!!!! lol. Yes filler is porous and ideally you should not wet flat it. However I've seen it done and have done it myself, you get a really nice smooth finnish when you do. What I'd suggest is if you do wet flat filler don't prime it or paint it immediately. Leave it out side in the sun for a couple of days, on days like we had last week when it's really hot. this should ensure that all the water absorbed by the filler is evaporated Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest clacky Posted July 11, 2009 Share Posted July 11, 2009 so so true about the garage and the crap we keep phew .....................thanks for the info on the wet flatting, it is very lucky that i have done exactly what you said after filling and flatting the bonnet it has now been baking in the recent weather another question if i may, firstly thanks for putting me onto the kurust, what a great product. The question is, i have rubbed bck to bear metal and rather than mask and prime each panel as finished could i, should i, paint a coat of kurust on each panel to assist in stopping the surface rust as it will be a long time methinks before the car is finally finished and ready for the paintshop ?? i have a feeling that the proper way should be to use rattle can primer but my outside conditions are not best suited to getting a good finish many thanks cheers chris Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest dee1orean Posted July 11, 2009 Share Posted July 11, 2009 LOL!!! the amount of KUrust I've been using on my car I should really buy shares in the company to get some money back lol! You've answered your own question really mate, you should prime as you go. As for getting a good finish with primer, Rattle can or other, it's all in the wet flatting. if you can apply 3-5 coats of high build primer (3 if you're using a spray gun, coats4&5 if your using rattle can) you should then have enough build to wet flat. Once the primer is dry, apply a guide coat and block the primer as stated above only change I'd make to those instructions is use 600 or 800 grit paper Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest clacky Posted July 11, 2009 Share Posted July 11, 2009 LOL!!! the amount of KUrust I've been using on my car I should really buy shares in the company to get some money back lol! You've answered your own question really mate, you should prime as you go. As for getting a good finish with primer, Rattle can or other, it's all in the wet flatting. if you can apply 3-5 coats of high build primer (3 if you're using a spray gun, coats4&5 if your using rattle can) you should then have enough build to wet flat. Once the primer is dry, apply a guide coat and block the primer as stated above only change I'd make to those instructions is use 600 or 800 grit paper Thanks for the info.........one last question, (for now) will standard rattle can primer take to hammerite, as i have used that around the front bumper sections (hidden areas) but i would like to primer over them as appropaite ready for the ebentual final spray over Cheers Chris Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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