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Mk3 Cabriolet Brakes


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36 replies to this topic

#1 Springy2112

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Posted 01 January 2017 - 11:31 AM

OK when I got the cab a few months back the brakes were rubbish having passed an mot the day before ! The pedal or brakes start about 2/3 down ...
So I have replaced front discs and pads rear drums and shoes and wheel cylinders (there were no leaks but thought I would start with new) ..full bleed in the correct order from Haynes manual as it's diagonal split system..
Still rubbish..
So new master cylinder ..bench bled..
Fitted and fully bled system ..
Rubbish ..
Got easibleed pressure bleeder bled all again
Rubbish
Jacked up car on 4 stands level in case the compensator valves in the front inner wing needed to be level..bled again..
Rubbish..
Tried bleeding from furthest away working back..
Rubbish..
Bled again the Haynes way
Rubbish..
Changed all bleed nappies bled again
Rubbish..
No air coming out anywhere I've checked the servo it's fine and doesn't help with getting the pedal anyway ..and I'm making sure when I bleed to release the vacuum air from the servo as per Haynes..
So far I've spent 8 full days on it over 6 weeks or so and still have the worst brakes ever just like when I got it..

Any ideas it's driving me nuts.
Mk3 1.6 cvh 1984 un modified..
5 litres of brake fluid so far..
Thanks in advance..
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#2 Springy2112

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Posted 01 January 2017 - 11:35 AM

Forgot to say it's not abs
And doesn't have the load valve things at the rear...
Just compensators in the rh front inner wing ..Cheers...
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#3 jinks

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Posted 01 January 2017 - 02:33 PM

hi chap I got mk4 with abs I removed abs and brakes went crap , in the end I had to adjust the rod in the servo its helped  also found drivers side calliper was not working correctly so need to order one up hope this helps


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#4 Springy2112

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Posted 04 January 2017 - 05:44 PM

Thank you jinks I wondered what the adjuster nut on the servo pushrod to master cylinder was about..just got some Goodrich braided hoses all round ( last ditch thought the rubber of one's might be swelling) haven't fitted yet...
That adjuster in the mcservo is not mentioned in the Haynes book I have no Base line settings for it..I suppose I should try to make the rod longer was gonna try just about 5mm ?.. how much did you adjust yours ...Cheers Paul..
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#5 jinks

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Posted 04 January 2017 - 06:44 PM

bit at a time if you remove master and put a bar on the pedal the rod will come out more i had a right job unding it go on you tube it tells you about it put in brake booster adjustment i still playing with mine , lol need to replace my pipes on a calliper lets me no if ite works just count how many turns you do . are your brakes hard or just got a lot of pedal travel


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#6 Springy2112

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Posted 04 January 2017 - 07:46 PM

Jinks, yes buddy the pedal is fine but it's literally near the floor...I changed everything and bled a thousand times like I say I even just got braided hoses which is a good thing as everything else is new.
The cars for my wife and I'm a perfectionist and I have brand new 110% brakes on all our cars for her and my daughter..can't be too safe..this has been a blooming nightmare people bring me cars to fix all the time I've never been Beaton by any mechanical problem ever..so it's not only hugely frustrating but also embarrassing!!
That adjuster caught my eye when I replaced the master cylinder but as there was no mention in the Haynes book I left it figuring it was factory set..I did try to free off the adjuster last time I was tinkering but it seemed solid..which made me think ..yeah it's factory set leave it alone..but what you say makes perfect sense and it has been in the back of my mind for ages..since you replied I have done looked it up on Google and you tube and am now convinced that this is it..
So thank you so much I will give it a try this weekend but will just do quarter turns ensuring there's no brake bind...I did see a way of measuring the depth of the travel etc which I can reproduce quite easily with some trickery it'll tell me straight away how far the rod is from the piston..
I will let you know how it goes like I said it's embarrassing as I'm the guy that all my colleagues and family bring their cars to for fixing...as once upon a time in a previous life I was a mechanic...oops!!!
Thanks again I will keep you informed...
BTW if you want to have a look at what I've been doing to the old girl (car)
I have lots of short videos on you tube..
Springy2112 is my channel...
In fact it's my user name on everything..
Cheers I appreciate your kind help.
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#7 jinks

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Posted 04 January 2017 - 07:58 PM

me to fix all the cars but not now doing my own thing the problem I have is a hard pedal on my cab and not quite locking up but since I adjusted the rod I have left  side locking up so think I change callipers , trying to do my xr2 front end rebuild and engine not took the  rest of body kit off yet opps so might need sills lol wife not to please just got my hands on some pepper pots £30.50p lol pick up from stoke . some one might have change the servo befor on your motor ,there is two different one I just found that out lol none abs servo wont fit abs master not happy  


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#8 Springy2112

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Posted 04 January 2017 - 08:05 PM

Cheers buddy good luck with yours well done on the pepper pots can't be too many left now ..
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#9 savi18

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Posted 05 January 2017 - 09:41 AM

Myself would change the servo if you can get good second-hand one. Had similar problem years ago and turned to be servo but on mk3 escort xr3i.
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#10 Springy2112

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Posted 05 January 2017 - 05:18 PM

Looking through all the vast pile of bills the servo was changed 4 years ago which amounts to less than a thousand miles...
This also ties in with the adjuster rod not being adjusted correctly ..I have watched half a dozen videos related to this now and the more I watch the more convinced I am that this is the issue..
But I'll find out this weekend when I have another go at it..it would be nice to move on to tyres tracking and fine tuning..oh yes and polishing !!
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#11 jinks

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Posted 08 January 2017 - 01:46 PM

hi paul how you get on


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#12 Himanshu

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Posted 08 January 2017 - 02:44 PM

I went through 3 years trying to address this issue. To be honest Ford Escorts had really poor barkes. 

 

I changed 3 servos, went through the who polava you wnet new disc, drums, pads, shoes, numerous brake bleeding and it was the master cylinder. I did swap one for another but this was faulty, given the age of these cars rubbers perish, you may also get the rubber hose connections replaced too they often bulge with age.

 

Dont get the kit for the master cylinder replacement these are useless. Try and get the whole master cylinder  NEW if possible. although parts for this car are rare as hens teeth and you are paying Rolls Royce prices for a a Ford.


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#13 iansoutham

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Posted 08 January 2017 - 06:08 PM

Springy, where are you based?

I may be able to help you out as have done many conversions on these and other items to make mk3 brakes work properly.

Did you know there are 3 different rear wheel cylinder combinations and about the same on master cylinders?
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in my experience there is nothing capable of doing quite as much damage to an engine as a really determined idiot.

#14 Springy2112

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Posted 08 January 2017 - 10:27 PM

Himanshu cheers I changed the master cylinder for a brand new one straight after the discs pads drums shoes wheelcylinders and now braided brake lines..after a brief tinker on the pushrod adjuster I achieved more pedal ...but as I changed all the hoses today and pressure bled it once I need to go back to it and bleed again thoroughly..I also need to adjust the rid from the servo scientifically/ properly..but I had the whole house in bits replacing joists and floors at the same time...I think I'm getting there..
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#15 Springy2112

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Posted 08 January 2017 - 10:33 PM

Hello again jinks yeah I think I'm getting there using your advice...just haven't had the chance to do it properly as it's been chaos with house renovation the last few days..changed the hoses all round for braided jobs so need to re bleed again..
But I did get an increase in pedal..obviously I need to find the sweet spot between good pedal and binding as you well know ...bloomin faff I don't remember these issues on the six I owned in the eighties...
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#16 Springy2112

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Posted 08 January 2017 - 10:35 PM

Cheers Ian I am not at that stage yet I'm determined to keep it stock but stock with shit brakes maybe ain't so clever..
I'm in Scunthorpe btw .
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#17 jinks

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Posted 12 January 2017 - 06:07 PM

keep at it mate I got to change my flexs if still grap will do callipers lol . picked up wheels got them home 2 of them are mk1 so sell them on they rear lmao .p.s to clod to mess now


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#18 Springy2112

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Posted 18 January 2017 - 01:17 PM

Bit of an update I fitted the four stainless braided goodridge hoses and bled everything again...still rubbish..the adjustment on the rod from the servo didn't help massively but helped a bit..but what I did find was a leak at the entry end of the master cylinder which was brand new!!! So I have another new master cylinder bench bled last night I now need to fit it and start again...have a new gallon of dot 4 ...Yes gallon...
I'm going to run a litre through each corner.... halfords trade cards are sometimes useful I got 12 quid off the fluid and brake cleaner price ... £19.99 for 5 litres fluid and two big cans cleaner instead of £32...
Don't use halfords much but I got 16 quid off the battery also...
I will let you know how it goes after the weekend...

Edited by Springy2112, 18 January 2017 - 01:18 PM.

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#19 Springy2112

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Posted 21 January 2017 - 04:16 PM

Back to the beginning..
OK I fitted the 2nd new master cylinder after doing a very careful bench bleed..
I pressure bled all four corners in the correct order..went completely overboard and put half a litre through each even though after the first minute there was no air coming out...I bled each for about ten minutes...9 of which gave no air at all...
There's still no brakes..well none worth mentioning and it feels very low and even more spongy now ...
I did the pushrod adjustment from servo about ten times in small increments and nothing..
I have now set the pushrod to where it should be be using a micrometer digital vernier guages to get the pushrod 0.2 mm clear of the piston at rest ...
Anyone had any luck reverse bleeding?
I have done the usual bleed with two people...
I have done the one person bleed with my pressure kit...
Haven't tried reverse bleeding...don't have the tool...yet!.....
I have reverse bled brakes on some of my awkward bikes in the past but you only require a big syringe due to the small nature of motorbike brakes...
On a car I would think even the biggest syringe would not be enough...Maybe there are some 500 ml syringes out there ?
To save buying an expensive reverse bleed tool which probably won't cure the issue anyway...
I am almost at the defeated point of taking it to a trusted garage and paying out just to get it sorted...it'll be expensive but the mechanic is meticulous and has a fantastic reputation...it'll very used him over the years for any work that's beyond my equipment...
I so want to get past this brake dilemma and get on with prepping the car for summer...
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#20 Nick Barnes

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Posted 22 January 2017 - 06:19 AM

Hi Springy, I have been following your dilemma on here and on YOU TUBE ( NICE VIDS ) I cannot help you solve this problem sorry :( but you seem very knowledgeable with cars unlike me, so if you get stuck it must be even more frustrating than it happening to a muppet like me ? I cant tell a crosshead from a flat head  :blush: but hopefully I will also pick up some info on here  so far so good had a few good guys help me out with a few issues already. All I can do is wish you luck and maybe someone else on here can give you more advice ?


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